I have never designed a part that was scheduled to be produced by stamping. I am sure that there is something special I need to know about this process....

 

Please school me.

 

Yes, I know this is somewhat a generic question, but I am looking for answers to narrow down my actual questions.


Categories: General

Comments
Last comment By: Rick Becker   Thu, 07 Dec 2017 21:54:39 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

If you are going to do a lot of stamping you might want to consider Logopress

 

Logopress3, 3D Die Design Software for SOLIDWORKS

By: Wayne Schafer  Wed, 06 Dec 2017 21:13:30 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

I don't know hat I will be doing any...YET. This remains to be seen as I will be visiting a new supplier next week that offers die stamping. We have a lot of parts that could benefit from this.

By: Kevin Andrews  Wed, 06 Dec 2017 21:21:54 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

You have not given us any information to help you with your question.  What are you designing; plus materials, tolerances, part volumes are just the first of many things that need to be known.

 

Years of experience....   Can't be condensed into a forum post.

 

Stamping is a very big subject with many types of stampings.

 

Best to talk with your suppliers for help with creating a design that can be manufactured cost effectively.

By: Anna Wood  Thu, 07 Dec 2017 00:26:54 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

Anna - I intended for my question to be very vague. I wasn't asking to learn everything from a single post on the forum, but to get ideas of where I could narrow my specific questions down. I even stated this in my original post.

 

Maybe I was a bit too vague, so I will narrow this down a little bit. All I am really looking for, right now, is areas to be cognizant of while I am in the design process. For instance: when designing a cast part, I know I have to allow for draft. I know I can't have sharp edges...........and so on.

 

I am going to assume that when I design for a stamped part, I need to have some sort of draft. Is there a minimum radius to be aware of? Is there a function in Solidworks that deals directly with stampings (I am only familiar with "forming" through brief YouTube videos) that will automatically deduct from the thickness of the material as it is stretched through a bend? Do you design as if it is a sheet metal part?

 

Are these more specific as to what I am looking for?

 

I 100% agree that I should work with the tooling specialist for the part that I am working on, but I would also like to be able to show that person what I am looking to have as an end result as well.

By: Kevin Andrews  Thu, 07 Dec 2017 15:04:17 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

Kevin Andrews wrote:

I have never designed a part that was scheduled to be produced by stamping.

Kevin, it may be your wording, but you seem to be asking...

"I have a metal thing manufactured and I need to lay out a dimensioned and toleranced part print. The part seems like it would best be made via a stamping process. How do I design this part stamping friendly?"

or are you asking...

"I have a part print from a customer of a stamped part. I need to design a progressive die to manufacture this part. Can you advise me on best practices?"

By: Rick Becker  Thu, 07 Dec 2017 15:30:37 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

Kevin Andrews wrote:

 

Maybe I was a bit too vague, so I will narrow this down a little bit. All I am really looking for, right now, is areas to be cognizant of while I am in the design process. For instance: when designing a cast part, I know I have to allow for draft. I know I can't have sharp edges...........and so on.

Kevin, there are big differences between brake forming, stamping, folding, and deep drawing.  You might find better answers with a web search as there are many helpful sources of information out there.  Start with Wikipedia.  The other thing to perhaps narrow your search is to find out what this vendor does that might be relevant to your parts.  If he is a press brake shop then learn about press brake operations.  If he is a stamping or progressive die shop then learn about those technologies in particular.

 

Your question is very broad since the whole subject of sheet metal is very broad.  You can narrow it a bit by considering what that vendor does and concentrating on learning about that technology.

By: Dennis Dohogne  Thu, 07 Dec 2017 15:34:37 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

Not really....

 

The subject is too broad and a couple general guidelines will only get 1-2 percent of what you need to know.

By: Anna Wood  Thu, 07 Dec 2017 17:44:13 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

Start by reading this book cover to cover...

https://books.google.com/books/about/Die_Design_Handbook.html?id=JDd61NujspYC

 

Then read this book...

https://books.google.com/books/about/Progressive_Dies.html?id=pB38dERpOJEC

 

After comprehending both of these books you will know about half of what it takes to design a progressive die.

 

The get the other half, enroll in an apprenticeship program for Tool & Die. After 5000 hours of building and debugging tools, you will be ready.

By: Rick Becker  Thu, 07 Dec 2017 18:05:58 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

Rick Becker wrote:

 

Start by reading this book cover to cover...

https://books.google.com/books/about/Die_Design_Handbook.html?id=JDd61NujspYC

 

Then read this book...

https://books.google.com/books/about/Progressive_Dies.html?id=pB38dERpOJEC

 

After comprehending both of these books you will know about half of what it takes to design a progressive die.

 

The get the other half, enroll in an apprenticeship program for Tool & Die. After 5000 hours of building and debugging tools, you will be ready.

Rick, he needs links to the Cliff Notes versions as he's visiting the vendor next week.

By: Dennis Dohogne  Thu, 07 Dec 2017 18:11:26 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

Dennis Dohogne wrote:

...he needs links to the Cliff Notes versions as he's visiting the vendor next week.

 

Sleep is overrated...

By: Rick Becker  Thu, 07 Dec 2017 18:21:35 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

OK OK - Wow...I can't tell if y'all are being overly sensitive or overly sarcastic. I had no intentions if touching a nerve in anyone - if that be the case.

 

Here is my situation:

I am a mechanical engineer and I work for a company that manufactures components for the trucking industry. Up until this point, all of our parts have either been sand cast, water jet, formed and/or fabricated. Many of these parts would be way better off if they could have been a stamped part. The problem is that they (I have only been here a few months), were not aware of a local supplier that offered stamping as a manufacturing process - according to my coworker.

 

Now, just because I have never had to design a part that was going to be stamped doesn't mean that I am not aware of a supplier that provides the service. I was the engineer for a fabrication company that specialized in industrial fabrication and equipment design. Prior to that, I was an engineer for a company that manufactured equipment to re-line wastewater and sewer pipe. With that being said, all of my engineering has been with heavier A36, A500 Grade B and 1011 steel. I have not have had very much design time with anything sheet metal related. What sheet metal design I know, is self taught. I knew that one of my previous, and local, suppliers offered stamping - I had just never had a need or use for it in my equipment.

 

I am not looking to be a tooling designer or die maker. I do not think that I can learn one little thing and think I know everything there is to know. I know that this is a process that takes many years of learning and experience.

 

In general, and I apologize ahead of time if the nomenclature is incorrect. When designing a new part:

Do I need to allow for "draft" on a part that can be stamped?

What, by rule of thumb, is the thickest material that you would consider for a stamped part?

While I know it varies by material thickness, is there a "formula" for determining the sharpest corner radius to use in a design?

 

I am only asking questions pertaining to designing a stamped metal part and not how to design the tooling for it. I would like to try and help the tooling designer out as much as possible ahead of time. If I know a few things to be cognizant of ahead of time, I can, hopefully, alleviate some of his/her frustrations when they do the design work.

 

Again, in general, can I get a ball park comparison of tooling cost for stamping vs. tooling cost for sand casting? Yes, I understand that it would vary by part - just a ballpark comparison is sufficient - just so I can prepare myself for my meeting next week.

 

I apologize if I got off on the wrong foot with the original posting.

By: Kevin Andrews  Thu, 07 Dec 2017 20:16:51 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

Kevin Andrews wrote:

 

In general, and I apologize ahead of time if the nomenclature is incorrect, do I need to allow for "draft" on a part that can be stamped?

The short answer is no, draft is not required for stampings.

 

I just did a quick Goople search on "sheet metal stamping design" and these two were near the top for me (it will different for others):

http://bowmannz.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/StampingDesignGuideline.92222443.pdf

http://www.qualitytool.com/resources/Design-Handbook-Rev3.pdf

 

I hope this helps.

By: Dennis Dohogne  Thu, 07 Dec 2017 20:27:16 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

Kevin Andrews wrote:

OK OK - Wow...I can't tell if y'all are being overly sensitive or overly sarcastic. I had no intentions if touching a nerve in anyone - if that be the case...

I don't believe anyone here was either overly sensitive or sarcastic. No nerves were touched.

All we were doing was asking you to tell us more information so we could help you better.

Really.

 

Kevin Andrews wrote:

...Now, just because I have never had to design a part that was going to be stamped...

That was the first piece of information we were asking you for.

I asked you directly do you want to design a progressive tool or a part that can be stamped.

No I know it's the latter.

 

Kevin Andrews wrote:

...When designing a new part:

Do I need to allow for "draft" on a part that can be stamped?

What, by rule of thumb, is the thickest material that you would consider for a stamped part?

While I know it varies by material thickness, is there a "formula" for determining the sharpest corner radius to use in a design?.

 

No draft is needed or designed in to a stamped part. You will have a edge condition with Roll, Shear, Break and Burr. The edge of a stamped part will have a rounded top edge with a vertical shear that can vary from almost none to 95% of the thickness. The part of the edge that isn't vertical shear will be angled and not smooth and is known as break. The amount of the angled portion is the "punch to die clearance" used to cut the edge. Generally from 5% to 20% of material thickness depending on the type of material being cut, the hardness of the material being cut and the thickness of the material being cut. There will be a bit of a burr at the bottom edge of the break.

 

Thickest material that can be die cut? I've seen .500 inch. .125 or thinner is much more typical.

 

Inside corner radii for a gutting punch depends on type of and hardness of the material being cut. Harder materials need larger radii. My rule of thumb is... If the material is stainless minimum inside corner radii = material thickness. Softer materials =1/2 material thickness. Thick or soft materials =1/4 material thickness.

 

Ifv you part has bends, there are minimum inside bend radii needed as well. The rule of thumb answer for that is much harder to state as there are many more variables to consider.

 

There are a few threads on this forum discussing sheet metal forming and the formulas used. Search and you will find.

 

Kevin Andrews wrote:

...I apologize if I got off on the wrong foot with the original posting.

No apology needed. We want to help. As you can see, starting with more details and information will yield much better answers.

By: Rick Becker  Thu, 07 Dec 2017 20:47:05 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

I fully understood the reason and background of question. There is a very special set of design rules and restrictions if part supposed to be stamped. Part design rules are linked to the technology, tools and available equipment.

But... without part model nobody will be ably to give you any specific and useful advice.

This area is too huge to be discussed "in general".

By: Vladimir Urazhdin  Thu, 07 Dec 2017 21:13:51 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

Thank you Rick. This is the insight I was looking for. This gives me enough information to be able to narrow my questions down to specifics. As mentioned, both in the first post and later on, I knew that my question was very general and overwhelmingly vague. I didn't know what to ask and was looking for insight to steer me in a way to a more specific question or set of questions.

 

Now I know you can't read emotions on a forum, but some of the answers I was receiving earlier almost seemed if some were annoyed that I poised my first post the way I did - even though I explained, or claimed, the vagueness from the get go. I can assure all that I was not trying to make someone's trade seem simplistic. Trust me when I say that I know it is a long process and there is a lot to learn.

 

I am 45 years old (today actually) and I just completed my engineering degree two years ago. I finished my degree while working 45 hours per week - with a wife and 3 teenage kids at home. I would never belittle anyone's efforts. While you stated that no apology was necessary - and while it may be my own perception - I don't want anyone thinking I was just trying to take the easy way out. I just needed some info, in order to be able to ask more specific questions.

 

Again - thank you for the information - very helpful

By: Kevin Andrews  Thu, 07 Dec 2017 21:40:53 GMT
Re: What do you know about designing for a stamping procedure?

Kevin Andrews wrote:

...I am 45 years old (today actually)...

Happy Birthday!!!

 

Kevin Andrews wrote:

... but some of the answers I was receiving earlier almost seemed if some were annoyed that I poised my first post the way ...

Read many of the posts on the forum and you will see two things.

1) The members are Very helpful and willing to answer any well thought out question or concern.

2) We like to have fun every once in a while. This has a cathartic effect for us. Many of us have high stress fast paced jobs. A little relief is needed every so often. As evidence I offer this thread from today, enjoy...

In the fishtank - for a laugh. (Formerly "Are forum points frozen for some?)

 

Kevin Andrews wrote:

...I finished my degree while working 45 hours per week - with a wife and 3 teenage kids at home.

 

Your family should be very proud of you. Hell, I'm very proud of you and we just met.

 

Kevin Andrews wrote:

...Again - thank you for the information - very helpful

You are very welcome. Ask more questions and we will answer them as well.

By: Rick Becker  Thu, 07 Dec 2017 21:54:39 GMT
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