Getting Rid of Draft
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2 months ago

Trimming With UV Lines Does Not Work.JPGDraft.JPGDraft-Sketch-Final.JPGIntersect does Not Work.JPGTrimming Does Not Work.JPGBack Ground we are a Stamping Die Company we have a couple of guys run auto cad, we got a guy on V5, and a guy NX9. We have a seat of solidworks and we have gone through a few people one of the main things the solidworks guys have a real hard time with is changing customer parts. The last guy told us this can not be done with solidworks. I am not a cad User I am the director of Operations. But I can not believe this to be true, However we hired a new guy and he seems to have the same problem so I made him make me some screen  shots of the part and I would like to know if this can be done or not. We keep going through solidwork users but we never have problems with auto cad, v5 or NX. Now NX, and V5 we have to have based on Customers. We were bouncing back and forth between Auto-Cad and Solidworks cause we need to Update. But before we move forward I need to look into this more. So here is what he has tired so far. So I really need to know if its the software or the people we are hiring. I would really appreciate any feed back. thanks for your time.


Categories: Modeling and Assemblies, Parts and Features

Comments
Last comment By: Doug Seibel   Thu, 14 Sep 2017 16:53:36 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Paul,

 

Can you get the original file from your customer?  What you have posted is a converted file.  You always want to work with the original if possible.

By: Walter Fetsch  Tue, 12 Sep 2017 00:26:31 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

The customer part is provided as a step file.

By: Paul Clor  Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:19:45 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Changing draft on a customer supplied dumb solid is incredibly difficult in most cases. Your best bet is to request a new (or native) file from the customer rather than you trying to have your CAD users reverse engineer their part, wasting time and $. Using bosses, cuts and the draft function are really the only tools at the users disposal and when you have a lot of compound radii it can be near impossible without completely redesigning the model from scratch. If you are a stamp & die shop, wouldn't you want to leave the draft on the part?

By: Newell Voss  Tue, 12 Sep 2017 14:52:22 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Hi Paul,

I don't claim to be an expert in all aspects of Solidworks but I spend a fair amount of time working with it. Most companies will provide step files which although they can be viewed and opened in Solidworks, they cannot be modified, when opening a step file Solidworks will ask to run "import diagnostics" and "feature recognition" although I have found this only works for the simplest of parts. Depending on what sort of changes you want to make to the customer parts it may be possible to create a "derived part" from the step file but I would only trust it to make simple changes eg. adding holes or cutting out shapes.

By: Robert Bray  Tue, 12 Sep 2017 15:01:50 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Paul,

Seems to me this is a plastic molded part, if you want to get rid of draft, then how it'd be molded?

However, if you really want to get rid of draft,  is it possible if you can provide a SW file  so I can run the draft analysis and check the possibilities

By: Christian Chu  Tue, 12 Sep 2017 15:35:31 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Agreed with Doug

Then it might be impossible to remove draft with step file even with advanced skill Sw user

By: Christian Chu  Tue, 12 Sep 2017 16:38:47 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Can it be done?  Yes.

 

Is it easy?  No, not really.

 

Is it quick?  No, not really.

 

Would most Solidworks users know that it can be done?  No, I very much doubt it.

 

Can most Solidworks users do it?  No, not without the knowledge of the various ways to do it.  What you are needing done requires someone that is experienced and well-versed in the advanced use of Solidwork's surface creation tools.  This is advanced-level stuff.  Your average Solidworks user won't have a clue as to how to do it.  There is no "one" way to do it, and what works on one part may not work on another.  The person has to be well-versed in a multitude of advanced level tools/technics in order to be able to accomplish this.  There are 101 ways to "skin a cat", and you need to know as many of those ways as possible and be able to come up with new ways at times.

 

By: Doug Seibel  Tue, 12 Sep 2017 16:26:21 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Well Thank you Guys for all the feed back I think moving forward we will have to go a different route of software, the other softwares we do run can do this in minutes. We are a very fasted paced company most of my guys can build one to two dies a day.

By: Paul Clor  Tue, 12 Sep 2017 16:56:10 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Not sure if it matters but these are steal parts made in a 3 pc die in a press. And the math we get from customers is always iges or step files that is the normal for automotive. And again I am not a cad guy we bought a seat of solidworks to try so when we update we can try and get all the same seats. Trying update our systems but want will work best for this type of work.

By: Paul Clor  Tue, 12 Sep 2017 16:13:23 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Well the only problem I have with that is going back to GM or Ford its not the easiest to get math data. And in this part its what we call die lock and our cnc can not cut the die. So we open it up then re-hit it in a secondary. We do this quite often, with that being said once the math comes in, it is what it is, Cause the big three provide iges or step files and unless there is a change, the likely ness of us getting different file types is not likely. With all this being said so the serious question becomes is solidworks not best for this? Like I stayed early Catia guy no problem, NX guy no Problem, Auto-Cad Mechanical guy no problem.  So moving forward with upgrading are systems we might need to go a different route then solidworks. Thank you for honest answer and your time.

By: Paul Clor  Tue, 12 Sep 2017 15:10:57 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Here is the part my Catia guy did took him about 10 minutes. Says he used a command reflect line I have no idea if this helps or not.

By: Paul Clor  Tue, 12 Sep 2017 14:41:58 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Doug did this in 10 minutes (if you look at the time stamps on his file).  It sounds like this compares well to "other softwares".

 

My knowledge of other software packages is limited, but I have trouble believing they're much easier or faster to use than SolidWorks.  Making these changes to an imported file can't really be simplified more than how Doug did it, no matter what tool you use.

By: Keith Frankie  Tue, 12 Sep 2017 21:56:16 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Does it matter that I have solidworks 2015? We have a hard time even finding solidwork users as well.

By: Paul Clor  Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:17:04 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

What I did, I could have done in Solidworks 2015 or even Solidworks 2005.  The tools/features I used have been in Solidworks for as long as I've been using it.

 

Have you sent your Solidworks people to training so that they can learn how to do this?

Have you reached out to your Solidworks VAR and said "This is what I need my guys to do, that they find difficult or impossible in Solidworks.  Do you have a trainer that can teach them various ways to do this?"

Do you view your people as resources to invest in?

By: Doug Seibel  Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:31:20 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

we only have one seat of solidworks, we have 3 seats of auto cad, one seat of catia and one seat of NX. And no we do not send people to training I figure if I hire a solidworks users he will already have training. So far we have been through bout 4 guys. The last guy I felt like knew more than any of the others but he still had hard times doing curtain things. And all the solidworks users all said the same thing it can not be done in solidworks. so I decided to investigate this and find out if this was true or not. So now it seems like some say it can be done not easy or fast so we will continue to look into different types of software, again thanks everyone for all the feed back. I will continue to investigate software and find the one that best suits us.

By: Paul Clor  Wed, 13 Sep 2017 15:00:17 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Hi Doug Seibel

Using the step file from Paul I tried to replicate your part and method for my own training and found that I could not get my part to thicken.

I even tried rolling your part back to before its thicken and I could not do that one either.

Possibly I have a setting that is different or I am missing something.

If you have a couple of minutes would you please try to thicken my part.  I would like to find out what is causing the problem.

Thanks

By: Frank Bos  Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:20:01 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

I tried to thicken yours but I am also unable to.  It will thicken to 1mm, but not 2mm.  But if I thicken it to 1mm, I can then use Move Face to get it to the desired 2mm thickness...very odd.

By: Doug Seibel  Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:38:12 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Thanks for your help.

I will try a couple of more things to see if I can get it to work.

By: Frank Bos  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 12:13:55 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Paul Clor wrote:

Like I stayed early Catia guy no problem, NX guy no Problem, Auto-Cad Mechanical guy no problem. ...

No problem doing what?

Editing this part as described, or doing other work?

I think you are attempting to compare apples and oranges.

I challenge the Catia guy, the NX guy, I'm not even going to bother with the AutoCAD guy, to edit this part as per your Design Intent.

By: J. Mather  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 12:32:53 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Doug,

 

Will you please explain how the split face with 1 degree angle is used in this example?

 

Thanks,

 

Andy

By: Andrew Grove  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 14:05:41 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

It is there to get rid of the portion of the radii that is backdrafted, and make the newly created face be tangent to the radii.

 

By: Doug Seibel  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 14:42:10 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Seriously Solidworks isn't bad it's all down to training. Pretty well every part model I get for tool design I have to modify/fix from clients and probably eight times out of ten they are step/parasolid/iges files.

By: Richard Gergely  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:47:42 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Editing customer parts is the problem our solidworks guy always run into, all the other users have no problems. like I said early I was not sure if it was the people we hire or the software that's why I investigated this on my own.

By: Paul Clor  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 16:17:13 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Yeah I am not a cad guy at all just investigating, if it was the people we hired or the software.

By: Paul Clor  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 16:18:57 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Doug: I think the split should be done at 0°, since the original request was to remove the back draft, not replace it with a sensible positive draft.  (Otherwise I like your methodology, though I can't get the thicken to work either...)

 

Paul - I bet your Catia / NX users are doing pretty much exactly the same moves (commands) using their software as SW requires.  Post a screenshot of their feature tree or command history - I guarantee  there's no magical "remove draft on this solid" command in those software packages.

By: Keith Frankie  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 16:26:42 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

As Keith Frankie noted, it took me about 10 minutes to do.  If this change had been done by the person who originally created the model, using the original native file, it would have most likely taken them anywhere from a few seconds to a one or two minutes.  Catia & NX are significantly more advanced CAD softwares, with price tags to match, so one would fully expect them to have more capability (otherwise...what the heck are paying for???).  The problem isn't that the software cannot do it.  And it isn't that the software cannot do it in a comparable time.  It is quite simply the skill-sets of the available workforce in your area.  Best thing you could do is to find out what CAD softwares are used by other similar business in your area as well as what it used/taught in any of the schools/tech/colleges/universities nearby, and take a long hard look at the one(s) that are predominantly used.  That way you can tailor your CAD software selection to the workforce skillset, and hopefully make it easier to find people that can "hit the ground running".  What CAD software is the least difficult for you to find adequately skilled designers for?  (rhetorical question...)

By: Doug Seibel  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 16:29:30 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

Well being automotive and for Michigan I would say most users we can find is auto cad, catia and nx. After all we work around the big three. But now that it is time to update, we were just looking into our options. And you guys are very helpful I like all the feed back. I hope I have stressed enough that I am no cad guy at all. So how or what the other cad users do to get these results I have no idea. As a big 3 supplier we are required to have a seat of nx and catia. As for the rest of the seats we would like to find a good alternative.

By: Paul Clor  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 16:40:31 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

You still haven't answered my question.

There is a rather astonishing difference between editing a customer CATIA part with CATIA, a customer NX part with NX, a customer AutoCAD (part? drawing?) with AutoCAD and editing an IGES or STEP similar to what you attached with any of these CAD programs.

 

Editing native files in the same program from which they were created is significantly easier.
Are you customers supplying you with native SolidWorks *.sldprt file?

If they did - your SolidWorks user would have no more difficulty than your CATIA user has with CATIA or your NX user has with NX or your AutoCAD user has with AutoCAD.

 

 

Are you saying that your AutoCAD Mechanical user can edit this part by your problem description?

 

Can you hire a consultant familiar with CAD to help you through this decision process?

By: J. Mather  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 16:48:35 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

yes auto cad mechanical, we rarely get native files 90% of the files we get are iges or step. editing parts to get rid of back draft is usually why we have to edit their parts.

By: Paul Clor  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:04:58 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

these are not injection molded parts these are metal stamping parts, 3 piece draw die or a 2 piece crash die. In our industry back draft it what we call die lock. It does not matter if you did it right or wrong, just wanted to know if it could be done, that is all I really wanted to know and seems like you guys all say it can be done.

By: Paul Clor  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:15:13 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

And to answer most everyone's question the native file was probably done in catia or nx.

By: Paul Clor  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:17:41 GMT
Re: Getting Rid of Draft

While most of my career has been in the injection mold industry, my Dad's was in the die industry and my schooling was in both.  (And a few years of my career was die building.)  Positive draft on draw-die formed parts is always desirable.  So rather than do it with zero draft, and have someone ask "well how do I do it so it has positive draft since that is what we will actually want?", I did it with positive draft and figured anybody should be able to look at what I did and figure out how to do it with zero draft...for those rare instances when they actually want/need it to be zero draft.

 

So do it however you think it should be done.  I did it how I thought it should be done.

By: Doug Seibel  Thu, 14 Sep 2017 16:53:36 GMT
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