GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?
SOLIDWORKS Forums
6 hours ago

Hello everyone,

 

Yes I know Quadro cards are the "officially supported" cards for SolidWorks and Visualize, and I have a P5000 in my #1 workstation. I want to upgrade another workstation and just thought I would ask for some opinions between the 1080 ti and P4000. The specs on the 1080 ti blow the P4000 out of the water on paper, and they can be gotten for about the same price.

 

Your thoughts and opinions on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Mark


Categories: SOLIDWORKS Visualize

Comments
Last comment By: Jeffrey Model   Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:50:17 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

If you're using the machine with the GTX card for CAD I would say no.

 

This is the age old problem.  Gaming cards offer more performance than the CAD card but can cause issues with CAD software.  The CAD card costs more, but is more rock solid for CAD usage.

 

Wouldn't it be great if Nvidia could give us a card that worked for both CAD and gaming at the gaming card price.  Us CAD people have been getting screwed by this for years.

By: Rob Rodríguez  Tue, 13 Feb 2018 15:16:27 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

It is also my understanding the the "P" cards are able to make use of the de-nosier while the gaming cards are not able to. Something to consider if you are planning on upgrading the software.

By: Chris Cunningham  Tue, 13 Feb 2018 15:32:12 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Hi Rob, I will be using it in Visualize Pro and other rendering software like Blender, Keyshot and the like. I'm not a CAD guy. I only go into SolidWorks when absolutely necessary to fix something in a model.

By: Mark Jackson  Tue, 13 Feb 2018 15:34:37 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

That could be Matt. I believe it is Pascal architecture is what the de-noiser needs. The 1080 ti has Pascal architecture. Maybe one of the SolidWorks guys can answer that for us.

By: Mark Jackson  Tue, 13 Feb 2018 15:37:14 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Upcoming denoiser is supported in Kepler series cards (with at least 4 GB of Video memory) and up.  So Kepler, Maxwell, and of course latest Pascal and forthcoming Volta are supported.

 

To the original question of a Workstation class card VS a Consumer (gaming) class card... think of it this way...

 

When you buy a workstation class card, you are paying for a lot more pre-release testing before the card even goes out the door, a support life-cycle (driver updates) in the range of ~10 years, actual bug fixes if needed, and continued testing and certification by NVIDIA and SW for years.

 

All of this of course takes a lot of resources...

 

When you buy a consumer class card, as my wife and I sometimes tell our 6 year old: "You get what you get, and don't get upset"

 

Hope that helps

By: Ron Bates  Tue, 13 Feb 2018 15:46:10 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Hi Mark - great to finally meet you in person @SWW. (Same with you, Matt!!)

 

We never receive GeForce cards to benchmark test, but I did just receive a new Titan V. I can confidently say the new AI Denoiser will for sure work with that card, and likely any Pascal-based GeForce card. I have not tested any other GeForce card, so I cannot say which of generation of GeForce cards the new Denoiser will work with. If it follows the same compatability as the Quadro cards, then Kepler-based and Maxwell-based GeForce cards should also work with the Denoiser. You just have to have a minimum of 4GB ram on the GPU for the Denoiser to work.

 

When the AI Denoiser is publicly available (2018 SP3), I would like for the Visualize community to help test the wide range of GeForce cards to comment on compatibility with the Denoiser.

 

At the risk of being redundant, there is a time-bombed special of 30% off Quadro P4000, which is blazing fast with the new AI Denoiser:

 

SAVE 30% off a Quadro P4000!! Visit the NVIDIA online store and use code P4000SWV30 if you’re located in the United States or P4000SWVEU if you’re in Europe, or purchase through PNY at www.PNY.com/SWW2018.

By: Brian Hillner  Tue, 13 Feb 2018 15:49:49 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Hmm, maybe I could be one to test with a 1080 ti. Maybe...

 

By the way Brian, your session at SWW was very informative and insightful. I enjoyed and learned from it.

By: Mark Jackson  Tue, 13 Feb 2018 16:02:59 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Agent 86 says to agent 99, "missed it by that much!" I have two workstations with K4000 cards that only have 3 GB video memory. Bummer. I use them to render static images with Visualize Standard.

 

I was hoping someone in the Visualize community that does run a 1080 ti might chime in and let us know what their experience might be. I know several people who do use them for CAD with SolidWorks and say they work pretty darn good.

By: Mark Jackson  Tue, 13 Feb 2018 16:06:59 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Hello Mark,.. if that is the case/use,.. the cuda monster 1080 is the best/fastest/mostest/bang/buck option. 

By: Paul Salvador  Tue, 13 Feb 2018 16:39:08 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Thanks for the response Dave. I appreciate it very much. I think I'm going to go with the GTX 1080 ti for the workstation I'm upgrading, but I'm going to give Ron the "official" correct answer.

By: Mark Jackson  Tue, 13 Feb 2018 17:06:51 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Like Dave, I too went with the 1080 ti, largely based on Puget's benchmarking and to some degree what I'd seen mentioned on this forum: the fact that number of CUDA cores count for so much in render speed. It would have been nice to personally compare my render time to a $7,000 card, but figured we'd take our chances with something that cost a tenth as much.

By: Rich Fagioli  Wed, 14 Feb 2018 15:41:00 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Mark, if you go for it please let us know how it goes.

 

Here's what I expect. If your #1 Workstation is running a P5000 and you put a 1080 TI in your #2 Workstation it won't be long before you are calling your #2 Workstation your #1 Workstation.   

By: Dave Goetsch  Sun, 04 Mar 2018 00:32:54 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

I'll post back when I get the cards. I'm on a number of waiting lists for some cards to come back in stock. I don't have to have them right away, and I don't want to pay north of a grand each for them.

By: Mark Jackson  Mon, 05 Mar 2018 16:17:34 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Dave Goetsch wrote:

A simple registry hack enables RealView graphics for GeForce GPUs (they are fully capable) in Solidworks that DSS has chosen not to enable by default.

 

Just my 2 cents........

Hi Dave, could you share with us how to enable the RealView via registry hack?

 

Regards

By: Shaodun Lin  Tue, 06 Mar 2018 17:48:51 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

I second that!

By: Chris Shaferr  Thu, 22 Mar 2018 13:57:17 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

I would recommend going straight to the manufacturers, like EVGA for instance, to avoid larger mark-ups like with retailers due to "GPU shortage." I got a 1080Ti Black Edition for ~$50 over MSRP instead of ~$300 over. If you're making a dedicated rendering/SW system, I would also recommend looking into the AMD Ryzen CPUs, like the 1800X or Threadripper. Their price to performance is far superior to Intel and they usually have a much higher multi-thread score on benchmarks, which I think is best for rendering?

Benchmarking Performance: CPU Rendering Tests - The AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive on 1800X, 1700X and 1700

 

Chris

By: Chris Shaferr  Thu, 22 Mar 2018 14:19:00 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Well, I've received two notices that cards were back in stock from Nvidia. It took me about an hour one time, and half hour the other time before I could get to a PC to try an buy them. Either Nvidia sent the notices by mistake, or the cards sell out again super fast.

 

Darn bitcoin miners making it miserable for the rest of us! I'm still trying to pick up two 1080 Ti cards for $800 or so each, but I'm not sure that's reality in today's bitcoin miner market. I might have to spend $1200 a piece.

By: Mark Jackson  Thu, 22 Mar 2018 14:36:42 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

I'm actually surprised more of you don't know about this. I've been using this hack for several years with Solidworks and it works perfectly. It's been available online for quite a few years. Be that as it may, here's the info.

 

Google RealHack 3.9 to find and download the registry edit file.

 

Or...

 

You can edit your registry manually. It's easy and there are several videos on YouTube to show you how.

 

Search YouTube for RealView Hack or RealView Enable.

solidworks 2017 realview Enable - YouTube

 

Always fun to spread some Joy.

By: Dave Goetsch  Fri, 23 Mar 2018 18:41:21 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Just like Dave has mentioned, I too have been using the hack for almost two years now without issue.

 

Dave.

By: Dave Bear  Sat, 24 Mar 2018 02:26:38 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

If you want fast renders in Visualize stick with Nvidia Cards and don't even think about your Ryzen CPU helping in any way. It's CUDA cores that Visualize needs. CPU's are pretty much insignificant.

 

CPU's amount to nearly nothing in Visualize as far as performance goes. It's all about GPU and how many CUDA cores you have and how fast they are running. A quick example. I have a render that I run in Visualize in GPU only mode that takes 5 minutes to run. If I run in Hybrid mode with CPU and GPU activated it takes 4 minutes 58 seconds to render.  This is with dual Xeon X5690's, 12 core 24 threads, running at 3.46GHz.

By: Dave Goetsch  Sat, 24 Mar 2018 02:16:48 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Hi Guys,

 

Nvidia emailed and said cards were in stock and would go on sale the next day late last week. So the next day I checked the site as often as I could. About 11:00 I checked and, "holy CUDA cores Batman!", the out of stock button was gone and click to buy was there! So I frantically click on 1080 Ti and put 2 in the cart (the max they allow), and clicked continue. The next page crashed. I tried this several times and crash, crash, crash. I tried again and it worked! I put in my credit card and clicked, and... Bam! "Sorry, but the 1080 Ti is out of stock."

 

I looked at the lesser cards and a couple were left in stock. I thought about it but decided no, but... The TITAN Xp was still in stock. Hmm...

 

I thought about it. I need cards. $1200 is the price you can get a 1080 Ti from places that have versions in stock like B & H Photo Video and some other reputable sites. Hmm...

 

Bam! Bought two TITAN Xp cards at the Nvidia regular price of what 1080 Ti cards cost at the other sites (that you can actually get them from right now).

 

So I'm anxiously waiting for 7680 CUDA cores to show up on my door step. They said shipping in 1 to 2 weeks. Each TITAN Xp has 3840 CUDA cores, 12 GDDR5X VRAM, with a memory bandwidth of 547.7 GB/s. Nvidia took my money, so the darn things better show up.

By: Mark Jackson  Mon, 26 Mar 2018 14:39:20 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

"So I'm anxiously waiting for 7680 CUDA cores to show up on my door step."

 

And I'm anxiously waiting for some benchmarks from you.....   

 

By: Dave Goetsch  Tue, 27 Mar 2018 01:22:58 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Hello Vizies,

 

Well, I received my Titan Xp cards on Saturday and installed one in my workstation. We'll have to wait until I decide on which new motherboard I'm going to purchase before I can install the second and do some benchmarks with two in the machine.

 

So, here's some benchmark results with the single card installed. I copied the settings used by Puget and used the Visualize supplied Camaro file.

 

Both machines are running Windows 10 Pro.

Dell T5810 workstation:

Quadro P5000

Driver version 377.11

Xenon E5-1650 v4 (6 core, 3.6 GHz)

16 GB DDR4 RAM

 

My custom build PC:

Titan Xp

Driver version 391.35

I7-2600K (4 core, 3.4 GHz)

32 GB DDR3 RAM

 

1969 Camaro @ 1920 x 1080, GPU only, 1000 passes

Dell T5810:  244 seconds

Custom PC:  144 seconds

 

The Titan Xp renders in 60% of the time it takes the Quadro P5000. This is consistent with other much more complicated render tests I did over the weekend. It's also 60% of the price of the P5000. So far, I think it's a great value for performance vs. cost when using Visualize. We''l see how it holds up over time.

 

I'll let you guys know how it goes when I get a new motherboard and the second card installed in the machine.

 

-Mark

By: Mark Jackson  Mon, 02 Apr 2018 20:19:01 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Hi Mark -

 

Thanks for updating this thread with your performance benchmarks of your new Titan Xp. Seems to be smokin'!

 

We rarely receive any GeForce cards for testing. Can you please follow the steps in this site to benchmark with how we at SW benchmark Visualize performance? Make sure you're using Chrome to download the .SVPJ, and read through all the paragraphs at the top of this site to keep your tests consistent. Look forward to your results!

https://www.solidworks.com/sw/support/visualize-hardware-benchmarks.htm

 

Thanks,

Brian

By: Brian Hillner  Mon, 02 Apr 2018 21:08:47 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Sure Brian, I'd be happy to do that.

 

-Mark

By: Mark Jackson  Mon, 02 Apr 2018 21:25:44 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Hello Vizies,

 

I completed the benchmark tests with the .svpj SW uses for their benchmarking at their specifications. In my testing, the Titan Xp trumped every card except the GPU 100 and Titan V. The Visualize version I used was 2018 SP 2. Here are the results.

 

Veiwport FPS 960x540 @500 passes: 29.82

 

Veiwport FPS 1920x1080 @500 passes: 7.72

 

Offline Render 1920x1080 @500 passes: 1:08

 

Offline Render 3840x2160 @500 passes: 4:31

 

So far, I'm very, very, extremely, wonderfully, amazingly pleased with the performance of the Titan Xp in Visualize. I've only rendered out static images so far in the short time I've had it. Now on to some animations.

 

The only thing that concerns me is that this is a consumer grade card, although a high end one, but how will it last when I'm running it full bore basically 24/7. Time will tell.

 

-Mark

By: Mark Jackson  Tue, 03 Apr 2018 16:59:05 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Thanks for posting your benchmark times, Mark. They are quite fast and I'm glad you're so impressed with the speed

 

...but how will it last when I'm running it full bore basically 24/7. Time will tell.

There lies one of the potential drawbacks from consumer GeForce cards vs certified Quadro cards. Do let us know how you get on!

By: Brian Hillner  Tue, 03 Apr 2018 21:22:22 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

..ah yes,.. well, only fair way is running a equal 24/7 side-by-side test.... otherwise.... yeah,.. there lies,.. the on going GeForce/Quadro myth. 

By: Paul Salvador  Tue, 03 Apr 2018 21:34:20 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

I'm looking forward to getting my PC rebuilt with the 2nd Titan Xp card in it. Then, with the Denoiser, I'll hit render and... BAM, it will be done!

 

Well, maybe not quite that fast, but I'm really looking forward to it.

By: Mark Jackson  Tue, 03 Apr 2018 21:35:21 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

It is that fast    End of April for Denoiser in Visualize!!!

By: Brian Hillner  Tue, 03 Apr 2018 21:40:39 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Mark,

 

I'd like to thank you for being a bad influence. I just bought a pair of Xps based on your post and will be starting a full build to go along with them shortly.

 

I'll probably put my now-legacy P5000 in the box with them, which will basically bring the total performance up to about 2.2 Xps. Heh.

By: Jeffrey Model  Wed, 04 Apr 2018 22:01:03 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Yeah, my mom and my wife are always on my case for being a bad influence!

By: Mark Jackson  Thu, 05 Apr 2018 14:53:43 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Mark Jackson I can attest I have been influenced also. I will be ordering one of these bad boys for my personal home computer. It will go nicely with my i9 extreme and m2 drive.

By: Chris Cunningham  Thu, 05 Apr 2018 15:12:12 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

GPU's don't mine bitcoin, they mine Etherium and others.

By: M. D.  Thu, 05 Apr 2018 16:00:06 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

I wish GPU's mined Melange.

By: Chris Cunningham  Thu, 05 Apr 2018 16:02:27 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

I'm pretty sure crypto miners wouldn't be using them if they weren't up for 24/7 100% use...

By: M. D.  Thu, 05 Apr 2018 16:06:29 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

I really have no idea what you guys are talking about. I don't know squat about bitcoin or any other virtual currency. My son-in-law told me that bitcoin miners use Nvidia GPUs for processing power. I figured he knew what he was talking about since he is building a mining rig. What the heck is Melange?

By: Mark Jackson  Thu, 05 Apr 2018 16:29:07 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Lol, it's the coveted "Spice" found on planet Dune. I was just throwing out a nerd mining reference.

By: Chris Cunningham  Thu, 05 Apr 2018 16:30:54 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Ha! I should have gotten the reference since I loved Frank Herbert's Dune series!

By: Mark Jackson  Thu, 05 Apr 2018 16:34:58 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

I´m just upgraded from GTX 680 (Kepler 4GB) to 1080Ti and did a little comparison.

Project Render: 5000px/500passes/GPU only:  23min vs. 6.30min

Viewport render of a complex Set with emissives,reflection,caustic,glas (accurate mode):  0.57 fps vs. 2.8 fps

By: Peter Hildebrandt  Mon, 16 Apr 2018 18:02:51 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

I can only chime in with my own experience with GeForce GPU's. I've been running my dual 1080 TI's for close to a year now. My workflow is to stack renders in the queue all day long and then when I leave the office at night I start the queue. The cards go straight to 100% utilization and humm all night long. Haven't had one fail. Prior to my GeForce1080 TI's I ran dual GeForce GTX 680's 4GB for about four years. Same scenario, I beat those cards hard and never had a failure, nor have I ever heard of one failing due to such heavy usage.

 

One nice side note. If you live in a cold area, your office will be very toasty when you come in in the morning.....  

 

Looking forward to more benchmarks and usage experience from Mark and others!

By: Dave Goetsch  Fri, 06 Apr 2018 00:02:49 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

I finally got all of the parts in yesterday. There was a Tasmanian Devil-like whirlwind of motion in my workshop while the machine got built.

 

The machine is an i7-7820X with a pair of Titan Xps in it (to be supplemented by my now-obsoleted P5000 later on). I ran 1000 passes on the Camaro just now @ 1920x1080/Accurate/GPU-only. It took a mere 71 seconds. Outstanding!

 

The numbers to match the guidelines that Brian Hillner posted (with the bunkspeed sign linked from that page):

Viewport 960x540@500 passes: 56.1

Viewport 1920x1080@500 passes: 15.2

Offline 1920x1080@500 passes: 0:35

Offline 3840x2160@500 passes: 2:13

 

This is ludicrous speed compared to the previous arrangement of just a single P5000 in an external chassis. There was no thermal throttling during these quick tests, but I do see it in renders over 5min or so unless I manually turn the GPU fans up high. This should get resolved a few months from now when I add water cooling to the GPUs.

 

Mark, thank you for being such a great bad influence!

 

(the tests were run using Visualize 2018 SP02)

By: Jeffrey Model  Sat, 21 Apr 2018 23:29:57 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

That's a great improvement in render speeds!  I was also using GTX 680 4GB cards (2) before upgrading to (2) 1080 TI's. I'm VERY happy with my render times and I can't wait until Visualize 2018 SP3 for the AI Denoiser feature. Life will be Bliss.....    =)  ( About 1 Week Out ! )

By: Dave Goetsch  Tue, 17 Apr 2018 01:01:06 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Oh man those are great numbers. I'm still collecting the parts to build a new rendering workstation and get my 2nd Titan Xp in the mix. I'm jealous Jeffrey.

 

So, since I seem to be such a bad influence, does that mean I'm on Santa's naughty list and will only get a lump of coal for Christmas?!

By: Mark Jackson  Mon, 23 Apr 2018 14:17:15 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Okay Mark, I'm a 1080 TI user (x2).  Here's a quick reference to Puget Systems speed tests of some Quadro cards in Visualize.

 

pic_disp.jpg

 

I'm running two 1080 TI's and my time for the above 1969 Camaro render is 77 seconds.

 

Performance is much better than one Quadro GP100 @ $7,500.00 and nearly as good as two Quadro GP100's @ $15,000.00

 

I bought my GeForce GPUs July of 2017 for $750.00 each so total cost $1,500.00 (yes, 1/10 the price!)

 

I understand why many people want to use the officially supported cards but for me, a one man shop, it made no sense (cents?). I am a CADD guy too and I use Solidworks extensively. I've never had any problems running GeForce GPU's in Solidworks or Visualize. A simple registry hack enables RealView graphics for GeForce GPUs (they are fully capable) in Solidworks that DSS has chosen not to enable by default.

 

Just my 2 cents........

 

UPDATE:  I added (2) more 1080 TI's to my rig for a total of (4) and now my render time for the 1969 Camaro render is 38 seconds.

WoW.PNG

 

Another interesting note is this. I ran the above render with just GPU. When I ran the exact same render in Hybrid mode using both GPU and CPU the render completed in the exact same amount of time, 38 seconds. This is with dual Xeon E5-2680's v3 with 24 cores and 48 threads. $4,000.00 worth of CPU's did not contribute to render times at all.  But, I also use other rendering programs that are CPU based and they run awesome on this box with those Xeons.....

By: Dave Goetsch  Tue, 13 Feb 2018 16:24:17 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Just like Jeffrey Model I was having throttling issues with my (4) 1080 TI's stacked on top of each other. I figured that would be the case but I thought I'd try it first anyway. Those double slot cards just starve for air due to the backplates of the lower cards blocking the fans of the card above. The only card that ran fine (no throttling) was the bottom card because it's fans were not blocked. The top three cards were throttling due to high temps 95c-100c. I've never wanted to introduce water into my workstation but in this case it was pretty much mandatory. My Xeons run fine on air so I just needed to water cool the GPU's. I'm still waiting for a couple fittings so I can finish the water loop. While I was at it I added EVGA PowerLinks to clean up the mess of wires that comes with adding four GPU's. Pics below...

 

Air.jpeg

IMG_4892.JPG

By: Dave Goetsch  Sun, 09 Sep 2018 19:20:13 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

very interesting Mark, Dave,

Helps blow away some of the BS smoke around the quadro myth and give a clearer view.

By: Neville Williams  Mon, 10 Sep 2018 05:05:25 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

wow, that looks great:)

 

I can see that you also changed the fan blades colour and upgraded? power supply

By: Wojciech Paterski  Mon, 10 Sep 2018 07:29:33 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Looking like a very nice build, Dave Goetsch! I use the EVGA PowerLinks on mine as well - they go a long way towards cleaning up the cabling. I'm also running an EKWB loop for my GPUs, although I went with the aluminum gaming kits from their Fluiding Gaming series (A250G + the 360mm radiator expansion kit) because the bundle pricing was so appealing.

 

Post an update once you have it up and rendering again. I think you'll be impressed not only with the performance you get back, but also with just how much more quietly the machine runs.

 

I'm in the process of putting together a new machine to handle the 2080 Tis I pre-ordered. If the rumors are true, I think I'll be putting Corsair's new GPU setup into that along with the CPU cooler I already have from them.

By: Jeffrey Model  Mon, 10 Sep 2018 12:04:02 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Yes, this is a new build that is actually not quite complete. I dumped all the stock fans in the CoolerMaster case and installed quieter, higher quality Noctua fans.

 

Also, when I began the build I was only going to install two 1080 TI's but then decided to go all out and install four. I had installed a 1000w PSU but when I added up the wattage of my dual Xeon CPU's and four 1080 TI's I though I'd play it safe and install a 1600w PSU.

 

You have a good eye....      =)

By: Dave Goetsch  Tue, 11 Sep 2018 00:22:03 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

I'm very interested to see what the noise difference will be. I've been running the 4 EVGA 1080 TI's with stock air coolers (3 fans per GPU) and they can get quite loud at 99% utilization on hours long renders.  When I put the water blocks on I was able to get rid of 12 GPU fans. That should make a big difference.   

 

Update will be coming soon. I should have it all buttoned up and running on water by next weekend.

By: Dave Goetsch  Tue, 11 Sep 2018 00:40:33 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Sounds great!

 

I've been running the Nvidia reference cards and the blower fan that Nvidia uses is extraordinarily loud. EVGA uses a much quieter trio of fans. Even so, your new machine should be markedly quieter since, exactly as you said, you've been able to remove 12 GPU fans from the mix.

 

Maybe we should start a new thread for our builds and see if we can come up with an updated Visualize benchmark that runs long enough to heat up the GPUs.

By: Jeffrey Model  Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:14:35 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Mark Jackson wrote:

 

The only thing that concerns me is that this is a consumer grade card, although a high end one, but how will it last when I'm running it full bore basically 24/7. Time will tell.

 

-Mark

They're gaming cards.  You think you work more hours then gamer play?

Unless you're rendering 24/7, you're not pushing the cards as hard as playing games.

Keep the cards cool and clean out the dust on the fans and they'll last a long time.

By: Frederick Law  Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:42:08 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Gamers vs Engineers?.... hmm... let me think for a half a millisecond.... yep,.. Gamers.. the hard and TRUE GPU's (guinea pigs users)!

By: Paul Salvador  Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:41:14 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

I sure hope I don't work more than 12 hrs a day but the OT pay would be great.

For sure no time to play video game after that

By: Frederick Law  Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:56:24 GMT
By: Frederick Law  Tue, 18 Sep 2018 17:57:15 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Some serious allegations in your links, Mr. Law....

Level two of the conspiracy is the graphics drivers which contain optimizations that specifically accelerate a variety of professional graphics applications, including CAD. The drivers are engineered to run only on the professional cards. Not because the hardware is more capable, but because they just won’t let you. Consumer graphics hardware is excluded from the inner circle.

CAD models just aren't complex enough to justify professional graphics anymore. Respectable 3D capability is becoming a commodity, as even common handheld devices start pushing enough pixels to handle the average design. CAD is no longer near the tip of the spear for graphics rendering.

Not that they are very surprising, but it would be nice to see sources and evidence for these statements. As for an industry-specific reply to Ed Lopategui's "conspiracy" theory here's one from someone who works for NVIDIA: https://www.boxx.com/Files/Files/WhitePapers/CAD%20Graphical%20Conspiracy%20BOXX.pdf

By: Rich Fagioli  Wed, 19 Sep 2018 16:59:13 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Hello Rich,.. thanks for that PDF!

..some good and funny statements,...I had to LOL with this one,...  "CAD users are extremely sensitive to line quality."

That is the least important issue,..  imho.

 

BTW,.. was at Central Computers in Santa Clara looking at a Tesla (~$5K) yesterday,..  now, that is one expensive paper weight!

By: Paul Salvador  Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:55:52 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

No proof from me, just reading news, maybe fake news

Good pdf you found.

 

My main point was OpenGL.  Lots of the graphic problems in SW (and Inventor before they dropped OpenGL) OpenGL hardware compatibility.

 

On professional and consumer card.

Long time ago when GeForce card can be modified to be Quadro.

A few resistors needed to be rearranged so the hardware id became Quadro.

This allow flashing Quadro firmware to the card and install Quadro driver in Windows.

They don't work perfectly.  Probably hardware is optimized different.

CAD use lots of lines in edge display and drawing.

Game was mainly texture.

The Modded Quadro is slower with shaded with edge and drawing.  It also had problem displaying more then 5 graphic windows.

 

This doesn't prove Quadro is not required.

It actually prove they're different enough.

 

BTW People are still trying to mod GTX into Quadro without much success.

By: Frederick Law  Wed, 19 Sep 2018 18:25:21 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Yeah....5 grand for a card. I have yet to see (or understand, for that matter) the value in spending that kind of money. Perhaps my work is too rudimentary to justify such an expense. It's fair, in my "highly esteemed" opinion, to fault both NVIDIA and Dassault for not providing detailed performance data that justifies the "certification" tag on a card that's nearly 7x more expensive than one that seems perfectly usable. If they leave it to internets to provide us with  benchmark test results, those expensive cards are going to lose every time, at least for value. Where I work, we're all perfectly capable of building our own customized, powerful systems, but given time constraints, budgets, and technology obsolescence, we all run machines pulled from the shelves of Costco. Who's gonna put a $5,000 card into a $800 computer?

 

But that's as far as CAD is concerned. I'm not so sure that the Visualize rendering process is in any way similar to the CAD data processing. Does Bunkspeed's ray-tracing algorithm require the same calculating horsepower and precision that Solidworks needs to manipulate huge assemblies? Where can one learn about the computational differences between CAD, rendering, and game development and how each stresses a GPU?

By: Rich Fagioli  Wed, 19 Sep 2018 19:55:14 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

The PDF you posted had some explanation on game and CAD different.

 

CAD need higher precision and more accurate geometry since user will be looking at a still model.

Game is usually fast moving like watching movie.  You won't notice anything missing.  Sometime you'll see gap between polygons.

 

On rendering they might be similar.  On daily use most CAD user would just look at shaded model.  The extra features on a professional card is not used.  Hence most people found a gaming card is usable.

By: Frederick Law  Wed, 19 Sep 2018 20:40:48 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Hi Vizies,

 

I've been away for a while because my account, tied to my work, was not accessible to me for a bit. I was laid off, but now back part time so I have access again. Anyhow, I have finished building my rendering work station. It's a Ryzen Threadripper 1920x with 64 GB memory and two Titan Xp cards. Unfortunately I don't have a license I can use at home anymore so I can't use it for Visualize, or run the Visualize benchmark tests Brian gave me.

 

Hopefully I'll be able to remedy that soon and report on how awesome it is! It runs everything else I create content with amazingly. Video editing, and rendering from other programs is fantastic.

 

-Mark

By: Mark Jackson  Thu, 20 Sep 2018 17:52:01 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Mark,

 

I don't know if you saw, but the NVIDIA RTX series just came out. Specifically geared for ray tracing, and around the same price for the RTX 2080ti as your Titan. Might still be within warranty of Titans to get RTXs?

 

DEVELOP3D blog - Get ready for real time ray tracing with Nvidia RTX and Volta

 

Chris

By: Chris Shaferr  Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:05:51 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

My office recently received a few RTX 20 series cards and I did some simple testing.

                   960x540 fps     1920x1080 offline sec

1080 Ti       25.91                76

Titan Z        24.62                80

2080           36.06                55

2080 Ti       49.25                42

Roughly, 1080Ti = Titan Z, 2080 is 50% gain over 2080, and 2080 Ti is 100% gain over 1080 Ti. I do not believe this performance gain is purely based on GPU horsepower. 2080 Ti should be about 25% faster than 1080 Ti in gaming.

 

1080 ti offline.jpg

1080 ti viewport.jpg

2080 offline.jpg2080 ti offline.jpg2080 ti viewport.jpg2080 viewport.jpgtitan z offline.jpgtitan z viewport.jpg

By: Alex Ji  Sat, 29 Sep 2018 01:16:42 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Great data, thanks for sharing!

 

The jump from 1080 Ti to 2080 Ti is remarkable. I'd be less surprised if Visualize supported the various new functions of the RTX line, but it does not (...yet - so the performance jump is likely to get even larger once that happens).

By: Jeffrey Model  Mon, 01 Oct 2018 18:07:09 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

VERY INTERESTING thread ... I am new to SolidWorks 2018, and much like you Mark I may be visiting models ~15% of my time, while leaning heavily on Visualize ~80% for client interactions and marketing content. I will also be occasionally run CFD and FEA analysis ~5%.

Reading a great deal these last two weeks around the CPU and GPU battlegrounds and seeing some MONSTER setups (including here), I am extreeeeeeemely curious and a little confused over what to do re: CPU and GPU options. I feel that I am narrowing my interest to ...

  • CPU:
    • Intel i7 8700k
    • AMD Ryzen 2700x
    • AMD Threadripper 1950x
  • GPU
    • Nvidia Titan XP
    • Nvidia Quadro P4000
    • AMD Radeon Frontier Edition
    • AMD Radeon RX Vega 64

 

The links below offer me the most "pause" in rationalizing all the data from elsewhere. I would love anyone's feedback.

Radeon Vega Frontier Edition benchmarking & interview with AMD - YouTube

AMD Radeon Pro vs. NVIDIA Quadro: Workstation Performance - YouTube

THANK YOU for everyone's contributions in these SW threads.

PS ... I am  looking at building a "one CPU & one GPU station" to start, but would like to consider potential expandability for the future ... perhaps filling additional GPU slots over time. 

By: Brent Gaspard  Sun, 11 Nov 2018 16:08:36 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Hi Brent -

 

I've put together two machines so far this year for very similar usage to what you mention. Here are my thoughts:

 

  • CPU:
    • Intel or AMD doesn't really make much difference here since the work you'll be doing is going to be GPU-accelerated. Go with whichever chip maker gives you the most warm & fuzzies.
    • The one thing to keep an eye out for is the number of PCI lanes. If you're going to be doing a 2 GPU setup, then you'll want more than the 16 PCI lanes which the i7-8700k offers. For an Intel setup, you'd be better served by the i7-7820x's 28 PCI lanes. The difference in price is minimal (~$100 typically).
  • GPU:
    • Nvidia is really your only option here. Everything you're going to be doing relies on Nvidia APIs in order to function. Even if the AMD GPUs had faster hardware (they don't), the Nvidia cards would outperform them due to that.
    • In terms of Quadro vs Geforce, I wouldn't bother with Quadro. You'll spend 2-5x as much in order to get 30% of the performance. Visualize doesn't make any use of the extra VRAM on Quadro cards, and it doesn't use any of the Quadro-specific APIs.
    • Compared to a Geforce card, the only thing that a Quadro enables is "Real View" in Solidworks - but a Titan Xp actually gets that feature as well (the 1080Ti and 2080Ti do not). This is simply due to a firmware flag and isn't actually a hardware limitation.
    • One note regarding the Titan: NVidia messed up the naming here. The Titan X, Titan X (Pascal), and Titan Xp are actually three different GPUs. In the second video you linked, the host uses the names interchangeably and the card he holds up is a Titan X (not Xp). If you're going to go with a Titan, the one you want to get is the Titan Xp from 2017.
By: Jeffrey Model  Sun, 11 Nov 2018 19:16:01 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Jeffrey - THANK YOU SO much for your insight here. Gotta say, I was leaning toward the Titan "Xp" as late as yesterday ... your remarks here help to reinforce that inclination.

 

I also found your other thread on workstation specs ... What's your render rig? I hope to grow into one of those monster stations one day. So, what are the primary variances and considerations toward building a station around the Titan Xp vs 2080 TI?

 

Thanks again Jeffrey.

By: Brent Gaspard  Mon, 12 Nov 2018 01:32:24 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Thanks for the very helpful tips here, Jeffrey!

For anyone that's reading this thread, it's a helpful place to hear about real-world Visualize users' experience

.

FYI - Visualize does make use of all VRAM on any NVIDIA GPU.

The VRAM is not additive, so if you have 2x GPUs each with 12GB VRAM, the total is still only 12GB VRAM.

NVIDIA does have the new NV-Link adapter for it's newer cards, which does in fact adds all the VRAM together, which would be 24GB in this example. The higher the available VRAM, the larger and more complex models you can open in Visualize.

1GB of VRAM = ~5 million polygons.

By: Brian Hillner  Mon, 12 Nov 2018 13:50:53 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

That's a good clarification. Visualize can use all of the VRAM on any Nvidia GPU. From watching just how little gets used during my renders, it's tough for me to imagine the scenes complex enough to justify having a 24+GB Quadro GPU. At that level of scene complexity, it just seems like the Solidworks/Visualize combo isn't the typical solution that most users have gone with.

 

This is also a bit of a contrast to the various other top-level rendering engines out there, like Octane, which seem to be much less efficient with their use of VRAM. When I load a couple of my fairly basic models into C4D and render via Octane, the VRAM usage is roughly double what Visualize uses (as reported by GPU-Z).

By: Jeffrey Model  Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:28:04 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

Hello Jeffrey,.. thanks for mentioning Octane... do you or anyone know why Octane is not available for SolidWorks?  Or,... if/when Octane will be available?

By: Paul Salvador  Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:34:51 GMT
Re: GTX 1080 ti or Quadro P4000?

The benefit for most users, IMO, of a card from the Titan line (the most recent consumer model being the Titan Xp) is that RealView is enabled in Solidworks. Many users swear by the importance of this feature. Personally, I never use that feature and simply do all texturing and rendering in Visualize.

 

The other potential benefit to the Titan Xp over the 2080Ti is that the Titan has 12GB of VRAM compared to the 2080Ti's 11GB. So, if your scene requires 10.1GB of VRAM, you're gonna be much happier with a Titan. If your scene doesn't fall within the 10.1-11.0GB range, then you're going to need a Quadro if you're over that range or won't see any benefit if you're under it.

 

I went with the 2080Ti on the new build not because of what it can do today, but because of the hope/hype/technicolor dreams of what it will be able to do in the future. The price is the same as the Titan Xp, so that part was a wash. Software support for the RT hardware is essentially zero at this point outside of a couple of games, but many developers have made promises of 2019 support (which I will just assume means Q4 2019). There have been some promises of NVlink support - specifically, VRAM pooling - before then, but so far nothing really exists on that front either.

 

So, that's essentially it. I saved $1 per GPU by going with something that isn't fully supported yet :-) But once it is, the performance benefits should be significant.

 

 

 

Oh, one other thing: If you're planning to watercool AND overclock, then the 2080Ti FE turns into an absolute beast. But that isn't without its drawbacks, naturally. The Titan Xp is good for this, too, but the 2080Ti FE is on another level entirely.

By: Jeffrey Model  Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:50:17 GMT
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